tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9220045813820945869.post1164194465259252554..comments2023-11-04T20:42:11.524+00:00Comments on HR Case Studies: NHS silliness: the infection spreadsGraham Salisburyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05029948174384225988noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9220045813820945869.post-24538282774113314802010-04-08T21:40:34.184+01:002010-04-08T21:40:34.184+01:00I will make sure that as soon as i get a copy of t...I will make sure that as soon as i get a copy of the ruling I will it post on here!<br />Expect that it will be a couple of weeks yet.<br />I would also point out the DoH advice on the following URL: http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Publications/PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_114751<br />which is pretty clear on the wearing of necklaces in the NHS! see pages 2 and 7 of the guide which is circulated to all NHS Trusts.Age Tnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9220045813820945869.post-78870336541458534202010-04-08T09:49:20.815+01:002010-04-08T09:49:20.815+01:00Nice to hear more details about the case.
Interes...Nice to hear more details about the case.<br /><br />Interestingly, having spoken to my NHS contact the trust he works for (which I am sure is no different from the majority of trusts) ban the wearing of all jewellery including watches - the exception of engagement and wedding rings.<br /><br />This makes perfect sense to me from a safely point of view but also from a health/hygiene point of view as well. I am sure that the humble necklace harbours a multitude of germs – from being touch, being put in the mouth etc. For the same reason that I wouldn’t want someone’s hair dangling on me whilst they tended to me, I certainly wouldn’t want someone else’s necklace either (might just be tempted to yank it off).<br /><br />Sounds like Ms Chaplin thought herself above the rules of the organisation she worked for – which to me sound like they were there for legitimate reasons. And anyway, I thought being a Christian was about how you live your life not about what you wear.<br /><br />Look forward to seeing the full facts of the case as they emerge: over to you Anon.<br /><br />EBTGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9220045813820945869.post-33007051640069330072010-04-07T22:26:52.197+01:002010-04-07T22:26:52.197+01:00Anonymous (7 April 18:28)
Thanks for the comment....Anonymous (7 April 18:28)<br /><br />Thanks for the comment. Perhaps you can add a comment on here when the ET ruling is made public to allow readers to access the full judgementGraham Salisburyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05029948174384225988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9220045813820945869.post-35227701858932350632010-04-07T18:28:34.686+01:002010-04-07T18:28:34.686+01:00As someone who knows this case rather better than ...As someone who knows this case rather better than you Graham I would sincerely recommend you study more of the facts of this case and rather less of the sensationalist propaganda peddled by the lobbying group that assisted Ms Chaplin in her case.<br />During the ET, under questionning, Ms Chaplin admitted that she was not in the slightest bit interested in coming to a compromise despite the 4 that were offered.<br />I do agree that H&S is a much misused term but when you have a clinical nurse treating patients who have varying degrees of dementia and an average age of 82 then your (and her) argument of 30 years of an accident not happening are complete nonsense.<br />I would also add that, unlike the version in the papers, Shirley "concealed" her cross under her uniform despite numerous supportive requests to remove - long before the issue became formal.<br />Also, disciplinary action was never started with this lady - although it is a clear sanction available in the Trust's policy.<br />So unfortunately you have been rather "duped" by some very dodgy reporting although thankfully the ET judge wasnt as he had access to the facts! You will too in the next few weeks when the full details of the ET proceedings become publicly available!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9220045813820945869.post-10970658776314060942010-04-07T17:13:15.765+01:002010-04-07T17:13:15.765+01:00EBTG:
Think we're seriously in danger of agre...EBTG:<br /><br />Think we're seriously in danger of agreeing!<br /><br />I don't mind what nurses choose to hang around their necks unless it genuinely consitutes a Health and Safety risk.<br /><br />If there's clearly no demonstrable risk, then freedom should prevailGraham Salisburyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05029948174384225988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9220045813820945869.post-26894730711986339452010-04-07T16:23:36.876+01:002010-04-07T16:23:36.876+01:00If necklaces sporting lockets, broken hearts or ‘I...If necklaces sporting lockets, broken hearts or ‘I love mum’ are allowed (on chains of any variety) then discrimination it most definitely is. If not, then I’m not sure on what basis you believe this to be discriminating against Mrs Chaplin. <br />Yes life is risky – you can trap your finger in a door, fall off a chair in the waiting room, faint from standing up too quickly or have a coronary after getting into an argument on a blog. However there are things that one can do to mitigate risks.<br /><br />Sounds like a challenge to find a friendly NHS worker to spill the beans on the kinds of risks/injuries that the wearing of jewellery represents in a hospital environment.<br /><br />I’ll keep you posted!<br /><br />EBTG (who sports no jewellery what so ever, just in case)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9220045813820945869.post-38969551801451703122010-04-07T12:55:47.477+01:002010-04-07T12:55:47.477+01:00EBTG:
Thanks for the insightful comment!
My gri...EBTG: <br /><br />Thanks for the insightful comment!<br /><br />My gripe is actually mainly at the stance of the Trust in claiming that their decision was based on Health and Safety grounds.<br /><br />Although I don't believe that there is any compulsion for Mrs C to wear a symbol of her faith, I do consider that the decision to forbid her from doing so on the basis that this might constitute a risk to the Health and Safety of either herself or her patients is at best dubious and at worst potentially discriminatory.<br /><br />I thought that the principle of Risk Assessment was to identify the potential consequences of a particular activity in terms of (a) the likelihood of it occurring and (b) the likely impact if it did occur.<br /><br />On that basis, I'd rate the wearing of a religious symbol on a (presumably) delicate chain as one which is unlikely to lead to serious harm.<br /><br />Being slightly facetious, I assume that the hospital has a number of doors at various locations around its premises. Children are notorious for trapping their fingers in doors. I actually suspect that rarely does a day go by in the Devon and Exeter Trust without medical treatment being given to someone who has trapped their fingers in a door. But I doubt if anyone is calling for doors to be removed to prevent it happening again.<br /><br />Life is inherently risky, whether as a nurse, an astronaut or an HR professional. Personally I'm happy to live with that risk, and I guess that Mrs Chaplin is too.<br /><br />But novelty socks are another issue altogether!Graham Salisburyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05029948174384225988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9220045813820945869.post-74906375477830869072010-04-07T11:22:00.359+01:002010-04-07T11:22:00.359+01:00From my understanding of the situation Ms Chaplin’...From my understanding of the situation Ms Chaplin’s employers did not insist that she remove her necklace, just that it was not worn outside her clothing – not to hide her faith but to adhere to health and safety rules. If the NHS have this rule about all chains then I absolutely agree with the decision that the tribunal made.<br /><br />From a personal point of view I do not want to be attended to by an individual whose jewellery could potentially cause me harm – whether that be a chain worn by a card carrying Christian or an individual of a gothic persuasion I care not. Equally I would not want to be in the position of having a chain grabbed by an elderly patient who is grabbing at anything because they think they are about to fall as you move them from their bed.<br /><br />Is it in the commandments that thou shalt wear a symbol of your faith on a chain around your neck – I think not. <br /><br />Perhaps the purveyors of religious paraphernalia should think up a more suitable religious adornment for believers who operate heavy machinery or work in the NHS. A ring maybe or a tasteful tattoo – it doesn’t matter. Although I guess novelty socks is out of the question, well for the NHS at least.<br /><br />EBTGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com